This week we talk again with Dan Reiland about raising up younger leaders. This is so necessary for us as older church leaders to do if we expect our ministries to continue building the Kingdom of God. Dan calls them apprentices, some call them interns, others just call them on time for supper - and that makes younger leaders happy! If you are a younger leader, you need to ask yourself, Who is building into me, and who am I intentionally pursuing for mentoring, coaching, and growth in my life? If you are an older leader, just turn that question around and say - Who am I training, coaching, and mentoring to succeed me, or at least my generation, in leadership? This is one of those practices that we need to build into our lives as a theme, or mission, of our life work, of our ministry. Mentoring and raising up other younger leaders can't be something we try to put on our to do list, as though it were just another task for us to check off. It comes straight out of Jesus' playbook - he mentored twelve, so that they could carry on his work. Who will carry on your work?
If you had to, could you write down a list of young leaders you are focused on, to mentor? Are there others you are currently mentoring or coaching, even if just on an informal basis? This is like a family. If you are married, but have no children, then you have no one to follow you, to carry on your name, or your life passion. I know many couples cannot have children, so they find others that they build their lives into, that will carry on a legacy of significance for them. Who will carry on your ministry, or Kingdom legacy? Who are you raising up so intentionally that they will carry on your work your way after you are gone... gone gone, or just gone to another ministry? Of course this is also how we multiply ourselves in ministry. We "hire" other leaders around us, even if they are volunteer. Everyone needs to have a purpose, and be needed. I recently asked a man in our church if he would serve as a Deacon. I told him, "we need you." I wanted him to know his gifts and abilities, and his heart, they are all needed in our church. We need what he has to offer. In the same way, as leaders and pastors and of small churches, we need what the people in our church have to offer. The Holy Spirit has placed gifted believers in our churches so that they can help us with the ministry God has called us to. Why not right now, write down the names of TWO PEOPLE in your church that you believe would be good investments of your time and energy - of your mentoring and coaching? Write down their names, and then write up a plan of action for 2014. How will you go about shaping them into leaders who can serve the people of your church? What needs to happen? What are they suited and wired for in your church, your community, their business, or their neighborhood. Get creative! Think way outside the "building", remember the church is the people, not a building. You know that. :) Jesus called twelve and mentored them to take the leadership helm when he would be gone. Eleven made it! Who will you "call"? Write down their names. Get intentional. And go for it! And, while you are at it, use Dan Reiland's book, Amplified Leadership, in the process. You can get it by clicking on the link in the right hand column. You can also see other Pastor's Coach articles he has written that may be helpful to you. HOLIDAY NEWS>>> Jeff and Jonny are taking a blogging Holiday break between Thanksgiving and New Year's. We normally write posts on M/W/F every week. Between Thanksgiving and New Year's, we will be writing only on Wednesdays in connection with our weekly podcast. Our podcasts will continue weekly, just our Monday and Friday posts will disappear during that time. We are both full time pastors and students, and this will help us finish our fall semester strong, and retain our sanity only to lose it another day! We love connecting with small church pastors at 200churches.com and through our podcasts - thanks for being a part of the 200churches community!
Eight months before we started 200churches.com, I was introduced to another pastor who was visiting in our town. A girl in this pastor’s church was graduating from college, and the pastor traveled four hours to our college town for her graduation.
We had a great conversation over graduation party food – celery, carrots, ranch dip… you know. I talked with this pastor about small church ministry, elder boards, finding volunteers, Andy Stanley’s latest leadership book, and all of the other things pastors talk about. It was a very enjoyable conversation where I realized that we both thought a lot alike.
One thing was interesting for me though. This pastor was different. Growing up in a very fundamentalist church, I would not have talked to a pastor like this. I had never met one. I knew they existed, but I honestly didn't believe in them. The interesting reality that day for me was that this pastor was a woman. Gulp!
The debate on women in ministry has been going on for quite a while, and will continue until Jesus returns. There are good, godly people on both sides of the issue. Our denomination does not ordain women as pastors or elders. A church down the street from us does. The wonderful thing about the body of Christ is that we can be different, look different, think differently, and interpret the Bible differently, but all still be brothers and sisters in Christ, part of the same family, who will one day sit at the feet of the same Lord Jesus Christ worshiping and adoring him – together! One of the absolute joys of producing the 200churches Podcast is that we get to talk to so many different people, who hold one thing in common – they love and appreciate small church ministry just as much as large church ministry. Our purpose is not to indoctrinate other pastors with our statement of belief, so we don’t debate doctrine, church polity, or platform dress (Jonny is definitely a hipster, and me… well, never mind). We talk about being pastors of God’s people, and we strive to provide ministry encouragement to pastors of small churches. Pastor Cynthia Moore has served the same rural church for 20 years. She loves her people, and they love her. I introduced her with Monday's blog post. I attended a Promise Keepers event this year with men from her church. Her husband and almost twenty other guys had committed to attending this event and growing together as men of God. This was a great group of guys! We talked about their church, and the ministry they have been doing there. I was impressed. A few months after we started 200churches, I knew I would have to invite Cynthia on the podcast someday. She is the real deal when it comes to small church ministry. She, and other pastors like her, are the ones who never get the attention, notoriety, or affirmation they really deserve. They are the unsung heroes, serving faithfully year after year. Quietly. Unnoticed down a gravel road. Their churches have dozens, not hundreds. Small buildings with modest furnishings, not mega-churches with cutting edge technology. They have people who are close and committed, with kids who grow up knowing that the body of Christ is like a family. The girl who graduated grew up in Cynthia’s church. Cynthia is the only pastor this college grad has ever known. She loves and respects Pastor Cynthia. She loves the Lord because of her parents’ love for God, and her pastor’s teaching and example. This girl has been dating my oldest son for five years. She is in her second year of medical school and will be a doctor. She will perhaps be the mother of my future grandchildren. Am I thankful a lady named Cynthia has faithfully taught the Word of God, and shared the gospel, in this church for twenty years? You better believe I am! So to all the small church pastors who live down a gravel road, receiving no recognition, acclaim, or reward – this episode is for YOU! Thank you for serving Jesus quietly, and loving his sheep fervently! Thank you Cynthia, for being a good and faithful servant!
This, is a no-holds barred, very honest, tête-à-tête between three, not two, pastors! We talk about the things that rattle a pastor's personal cage. These are things that we wish we had a handle on, and they all revolve around self-care and soul-care. How do we take care of ourselves? Better, do we?
Dave Jacobs from SmallChurchPastor has spent almost 30 years in ministry and today, from his home in Oregon, works full time coaching pastors and boards, mostly from small churches. Dave works with pastors of all size churches, but he specializes in small churches.
When we found Dave, we quickly invited him to join us on the podcast, because we knew he would share a ton of encouragement with all of you, our 200church pastor friends! So this "post" is very short, because we want you to enjoy this, our longest episode yet. Listen to it in two or three segments, but listen to it - because we know you are going to be both challenged and encouraged! Finally, be sure to check out SmallChurchPastor.com, because Dave has a ton of resources, some free, and some too good to give away! I especially like the resources he uses as he works with church boards to help you as a pastor in your leadership. This website is a treasure trove of help for pastors of small churches - take a look! We are not affiliate marketers for Dave, we're just smart - we know a good thing when we see it! Links that are all about Dave! www.davejacobs.net www.smallchurchpastor.com Dave's Church Board Training Modules My Best Leadership Training Curriculum dave@smallchurchpastor.com Twitter: @thinkmonk Books by Eugene Peterson that Dave references: The Contemplative Pastor - Returning to the Art of Spiritual Direction Under the Unpredictable Plant: An Exploration in Vocational Holiness Working The Angles - The Shape of Pastoral Integrity Five Smooth Stones for Pastoral Work As a young boy, I (Jeff) experienced the social, psychological, and financial disadvantages that accompany having a father who was an alcoholic. My dad is the best guy on earth! He is loving, caring, and thinks the best about others. But alcohol robbed him of reaching his potential in life. As a 40 year old man and father of four, he visited a young pastor, reaching out for help in his addiction to alcohol. This was likely one of the most difficult encounters of my father’s life. He had to admit weakness, admit he needed help. The pastor meant well, but he was bewildered as to how to help my dad. He talked with him, but never followed up, never figured out a way to reach out to the man who reached out to him. There was not a second conversation. Dad came up dry and never reached out to another “church person” again.
Four years later, that pastor was gone, and another was in his place. My family did not regularly attend church, and dad never did. We had just moved to another town, and did not yet have a phone installed. My mom’s mother died, and the pastor drove the 30 minutes to my home to tell us. He came into my bedroom, asked me to sit down, and then sat next to me. He told me my grandmother had died the day before. He put his arms around a 12-year-old boy who could not stop crying. I have never forgotten his kindness. Both of those events in our family’s life, as our family’s story was intersected by the single act of a pastor, had profound implications on how we viewed God, the church, and ourselves. My father was disillusioned, and has never attended a church to this day. I was profoundly impacted by a pastor’s shepherding love, and that care has impacted my own pastoral ministry for the past 26 years. On any given day, the actions we take can make a difference in someone’s life – for decades to come. We can, like Charlie Brown, be the hero, or the goat. If we are the goat, it doesn’t help much to rationalize away our actions by telling ourselves we were just having a bad day. We don’t get a mulligan, a do-over. The damage is done. If we are the hero, we can thank God that the events of the day are the reason we were born – to help people in their deepest times of need. Bill Hybels says ministry is not a “life or death deal.” In fact, he says that it’s an “eternal life, or eternal death deal.” Ministry, and how we perform it in the actions, attitudes, and words of our day – well, the stakes are always extremely high! With so much hanging on how we interpret scripture, how we counsel, the decisions we make, how we respond to both praise and criticism, how we handle an emotionally unstable person, an irate church member, or a grieving individual, and how we decide to spend our time, and on what priorities – all of these things are accompanied by what Paul described like this: “Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches.” 2 Corinthians 11:28 Pastor, for these very reasons, your “job”, your calling, your vocation in life IS much harder, much more stressful, than other peoples’ jobs. Yes it is. If you goof it up, you might be the cause of two children in a family becoming disconnected from the body of Christ, and moving away from God and into the arms of the world. Yeah, that can happen, or any other negative consequence of careless ministry you can imagine! You say it is all up to God, but no, your dumb mistake, or careless word can cause lasting damage. The older you get, the more weight you will carry (sometimes literally!) with people, and the more important your words and actions become. That is very stressful, and a heavy burden we carry every day, even when we are not consciously thinking about it. So, you have to take care of yourself. How are you doing? Are you healthy, rested, in shape, and ready for the long haul? Again, how are YOU doing? This week on episode 44 of the 200churches Podcast, we talk with Dave Jacobs, who for seven years has been a life coach for dozens of pastors. He spent almost thirty years in ministry, and then transitioned to helping primarily pastors of smaller churches – 200church pastors! He lives and works at www.smallchurchpastor.com. We have a great conversation with him, and one of the major themes is how the pastor needs to care for herself or himself. He uses the oxygen mask illustration and reminds us that we can only care for others, after we’ve first cared for ourselves. Pastor, when it comes to your own personal physical, spiritual, and emotional health, the question is: Do you care? What are some ways that you care for yourself in the rigors of ministry?
In this episode Jonny and Jeff are joined by their friend Nathan Stob, the Director of Atlas Ministries in their town. Nathan counsels and helps men in their community with all kinds of life issues, including porn addiction. This is a serious discussion of the spiritual silent killer: porn. If you struggle with this, or if you need to help others who struggle, we know this episode will help and encourage you. Maybe you are literally drowning in porn addiction – this episode is for you!
Jeff and Nathan have been friends for about seven years, serving together in non-profit organizations in the same town. They get together for lunch frequently just to talk life and help each other stay on track. In this episode, along with Jonny, they talk about the very sensitive issue of pornography. This is a serious scourge on our society that we are all potentially affected by in one way or another.
Here are some links to places where you can get help. This sin is no respecter of persons or callings. If you are struggling with this, congratulations, you’re human! We know that this podcast episode will help you, and encourage you as you lead in your 200church! Contacts for the three guys on the podcast:
Links to help you:
Whenever we partner with others, we get help and encouragement to get through our stuff, so, find another pastor, counselor, or close friend whom you trust – and confide in them. Bringing our sin into the light of day drains its power over us! Confess your sins to one another, James says, and you will be healed. At the end of the podcast, Jeff makes a very heartfelt appeal to you, if you are struggling with pornography and have NO ONE to talk to – call Nathan, Jeff, or Jonny. These guys are all at different stages in life, so call the one closest to your stage. They care and will be glad to talk with you, pray with you, and help you to not journey through this alone. Jeff is 50 with adult kids, Nathan is 37 with grade school kids, and Jonny is 27 with preschool kids. Email them, get in touch, and begin the process of coming clean! They love pastors of small churches, so remember, if you’re alone – not any more, you have someone to talk to. Once again, here are their email addresses:
Me. I actually thought of leaving it with just that one word – “me.” Yeah, a one word blog post. Kind of appealing, actually. If you were honest, I bet you would have the same answer to that question – “What is your biggest leadership challenge?” This is the last week of the month, and so this week on the podcast we have Part 3 of our conversation with none other than The Pastor’s Coach himself, Dan Reiland. We talk about a number of local church leadership issues in this podcast that will be sure to challenge you in one or more areas of your 200church leadership.
Part 3 is based on chapters 5 & 6 of Dan’s book, Amplified Leadership – 5 Practices To Establish Influence, Build People, and Impact Others For A Lifetime. If you don’t have this book, we encourage you to pick it up on Amazon, either in paper or on Kindle. The principles in this book fit very well with the leadership challenges of 200church pastors. Back to my biggest leadership challenge - me. If I could control what I do every day, I could control my destiny. Sounds easy enough, right? Sure thing. All I need is discipline. John Maxwell said “The secret of your success is found in your daily agenda – what you do every day.” Isn’t that the truth! But isn’t that also the problem? Because –
So – what is the answer? Well, if I had the answer (other than what the 482 ministry leadership books already written say) I could, as they say, make a lot of money! I know this – part of the answer is to 1) Be truthful about our struggles and challenges, and 2) Stay in the game. Be honest with one other leader you trust, and who cares about you unconditionally. We need another we can be totally open and vulnerable with! Oh yes we do! Too many pastors are on the solo route, avoiding that personal, fully transparent, face to face encounter with rationalization after rationalization. As Bob Neuhart said, “Stop it! Just stop it!” Make it happen – if you are having problems, get help. Do. It. Now. And, for the Kingdom’s sake, stay in the game! Don’t quit. Take time off, go on a retreat, sleep in, get counseling… but stay in the game. It’s always too soon to quit. (I know, I know, hyperbole yes, but you get my point…) So, are you your greatest ministry leadership challenge? Don’t quit, and seek out someone you can talk to. Ministry leaders fail in isolation and loneliness. Don’t be that woman or man. If you’re going to be your greatest ministry leadership challenge – then also be your greatest ministry leadership asset to meet that challenge. We’re looking forward to meeting you on Wednesday’s podcast, Episode 42 – with Dan “the Man” Reiland. Dan Reiland Part 1 Episode 33 Dan Reiland Part 2 Episode 37 Happy Friday from Jeff and Jonny at 200churches! We have spent the week talking about the bigness of small church ministry, and we will end the week talking about it. Do you think that the smaller sites of a multi-site megachurch have inferiority complexes because they are smaller? Ever consider if the staff in the larger venues struggle with pride because their site has more people? Ever wonder if the leaders of the smaller worship venues in a church with multiple services ever stew because another venue with a different worship style or service time is attracting more people? Yeah, us neither. We’re too worried about how many people are in our small church, or how many are in the church across town. We may be wondering why our church is not growing as fast as Mark’s or Susan’s or Bill’s. Do we spend the same amount of time concerning ourselves with our walk with God? Or, the spiritual growth of our people? Or, the poor, orphan, or widow in our community? Wow, talk about a guilt trip! Let’s change direction before this plane hits a mountain…
Are you ever glad for the small church you pastor? In the part of our conversation this week with Karl Vaters that did not get recorded, we talked about the following dynamics in larger churches: Karl told us about his friend’s church of 3,000 people that had multiple sites, multiple venues, and multiple services. He said that in that church of 3,000 no group ever met for worship with more than about 350 people. Some of the services had 50 people in them! Listen, in a church of 3,000, some services have 50 people! Now, how do you feel about your church of 50? Pretty good, we hope. What if the ten churches in your community that total 3,000 people pretend you are just one big church in your town and that each of the buildings are just another “site”. Yeah, so there, what if?! Now how do you feel about your church of 100? Do you see how it’s all so relative – size of congregation? Finally, what do the big churches have to do – break themselves down into smaller groups so that they can do ministry effectively. Yes, it’s called, multi-site, multiple venues, multiple services, etc. In fact, so many churches have what we call “small groups” so that they can do life together. Something they can’t do on a Sunday morning in the bigger crowd, whether that’s 40 or 40,000. So you see, having a small church simply means you can do ministry with people and cut out the part about breaking everyone into smaller groups. Get to know the other pastors in your town, all of them, and just make pretend they are all on your staff and pastoring the other sites in your multi-site church! Enjoy your small church ministry. It’s the only kind of ministry Jesus ever did. Your leadership and shepherding matter HUGE in your 200church. Comment below on just one thing you like about pastoring a small church...
This week on Episode 41 of the 200churches Podcast Jonny and I welcome back Karl Vaters. Karl is the pastor of Cornerstone Christian Fellowship in Fountain Valley, CA, the founder of NewSmallChurch.com, and the author of The Grasshopper Myth - Big Churches, Small Churches, and the Small Thinking that Divides Us.
Karl joins us today to talk about his visit to Croatia. A friend of a friend of a friend ended up reading Karl's book and realizing how much the small church pastors (they're all small churches!) in Croatia would benefit from Karl's message. He was invited, and in September he was able to travel there and speak in three different churches in Croatia, as well as with some chaplains at an American Army base in Germany.
Where is Croatia? Glad you asked... It is one of six nations that used to be known together as Yugoslavia.
Karl was challenged by the faith of the people he met with and ministered to, and his heart broke when he realized what the church growth emphasis coming from America has done to their confidence as small churches and small church pastors.
In the wrap up to the podcast, Jeff talks about a part of their conversation that did not make it onto the recording, where Karl spoke about his friend's church. It is a church of 3,000 - that has multiple locations, venues, and service times. So this church never has a crowd of more than 350 meeting in any one place at any one time. This large church has to become a number of small churches in order to accomplish ministry most effectively! Now when you hear them talking about, you'll know the context. If you do not have Karl's book, The Grasshopper Myth, send us an email - we have a few copies and we will send you one as long as they last. (see our Contact tab at the top of this web page) - or, buy your's from Amazon by clicking on the picture below.
Karl has a great website for small church pastors! Check it out and be sure to click on the "Start Here" tab at the top.
We hope you are encouraged as a small church pastor by listening to this episode! My (Jeff) first pastoral ministry position was in a small town called Factoryville. No, I didn’t misspell it – it was Factoryville. Don’t worry, the name grows on you. After a while it sounds as attractive as Hollywood. Well, okay, not really, but anyway… I took a church that had just lost a building to a fire, and a pastor to a larger full-time position. We met in a Borough Hall. (that’s pig Latin for “town hall” – no offense to pigs) My wife and I attended this church before I became the pastor and our ministry was to teach Children’s Church in the lower level. Do you feel me when I say “lower level”? Read dungeon. Really. Actually dungeon is generous. You could only get newlyweds addicted to ministry to serve in a space like that! Our days in the Borough Hall were numbered so we bought the old town library, which was a jail before that, I think back in the 1800’s or at least during Bonnie and Clyde. I think they were actually held there for a while in the 30’s. But we bought the building, and I got my friend, whose name I don’t remember now, to remodel it for us. What a hoot! What was I thinking? When we had finished the remodel, the first floor was the “auditorium” and when we set up all the chairs we had, and took up every space we could in the 25’x31’ room, we sat 50 people! I had my college president come and preach, we had 50 people that morning, and he wondered what we were going to do to make more room. Can I tell you? Back then, in 1988, we never imagined scheduling a second service. In that room, 50 people was packing out the house! It was an enormous crowd! Downstairs in the, get it, the, Sunday School room, a dozen people was a world record… for our Factoryville church. One Sunday night for our evening service I had two people show up, and one was a visitor. I welcomed them, and we had church. I even preached the message I had prepared. I never saw that visitor again, because in that context, three was definitely not a crowd! But he did stay until the end of the message. Shock makes people do strange things. For many churches, 100 people would be considered a very, very small group of people. For other churches, 100 would be a banner day. For still other churches 1,000 people would be a terrible Sunday. In every one of those churches, each person sits with one other person, or a few other people in a group, and they worship, whether there’s 50 or 5,000. Small is relative, large is relative. But JESUS is our common Lord, Savior, and Friend! No matter the size of your church, or the terrible or beautiful name of your town, your pastoral leadership and love for your people is paramount. Love the 5 or love the 5,000. Apples and oranges yes, but they are both fruit, and fruit is what Jesus told us to look for. He told us to make disciples of all ethnic groups, baptize them, and teach them to obey him. Whether we do that in a big group or small matters not a bit. This week on the 200churches Podcast Jonny and I welcome back Karl Vaters. Karl is the pastor of Cornerstone Christian Fellowship in Fountain Valley, CA, the founder of NewSmallChurch.com, and the author of The Grasshopper Myth - Big Churches, Small Churches, and the Small Thinking that Divides Us. Karl is a pitbull in defense of small churches and small church pastors. He is rabidly committed to the local church, as in the people and the pastor. Karl spent most of September away from his California church, ministering in Europe. Some people got a hold of his book, The Grasshopper Myth, and he went over and taught them that they can love their small churches – and he is going to tell us all about it! Karl knows that small is quite relative and inconsequential when it comes to Kingdom ministry. Jonny and I are looking forward to talking with him, and sharing that conversation with YOU! The 200churches Podcast is released on iTunes and Stitcher, and on our 200churches.com site every Wednesday at 12:01AM. Here is Karl's first conversation with us on the 200churches Podcast. Below: Karl preaching in Croatia. Begins at 36:00.Thankfully, there will be no need for a translator on episode 41 of the 200churches Podcast. Just us English speaking pastor types! Looking forward to Wednesday...
This is a special Tuesday Preview Post to prepare you for tomorrow’s podcast! Wow! I just finished editing the podcast for this week, which means I also just finished listening through the entire conversation. This is the very interview Jonny and I did with Jim Powell – I mean, I was there, an eye witness. But I just learned so much by listening to the three of us talk, just like you will tomorrow, as a third party listening in on our conversation. Episode 40 of the 200churches Podcast is a great one that will challenge you and encourage you as you lead and pastor YOUR 200church! To really whet your appetite though, take a look at this short video from Jim Powell, founder of the 95Network and lead pastor of Richwoods Christian Church, as he introduces the background of his book, Dirt Matters, to you. This is so cool, because it is also a great introduction to our podcast tomorrow. The podcast will make more sense to you if you watch this 3 minute video. This is good stuff and Jim’s message will help you as you lead your 200church! Here it is… |
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