Eight months before we started 200churches.com, I was introduced to another pastor who was visiting in our town. A girl in this pastor’s church was graduating from college, and the pastor traveled four hours to our college town for her graduation.
We had a great conversation over graduation party food – celery, carrots, ranch dip… you know. I talked with this pastor about small church ministry, elder boards, finding volunteers, Andy Stanley’s latest leadership book, and all of the other things pastors talk about. It was a very enjoyable conversation where I realized that we both thought a lot alike.
One thing was interesting for me though. This pastor was different. Growing up in a very fundamentalist church, I would not have talked to a pastor like this. I had never met one. I knew they existed, but I honestly didn't believe in them. The interesting reality that day for me was that this pastor was a woman. Gulp!
The debate on women in ministry has been going on for quite a while, and will continue until Jesus returns. There are good, godly people on both sides of the issue. Our denomination does not ordain women as pastors or elders. A church down the street from us does. The wonderful thing about the body of Christ is that we can be different, look different, think differently, and interpret the Bible differently, but all still be brothers and sisters in Christ, part of the same family, who will one day sit at the feet of the same Lord Jesus Christ worshiping and adoring him – together! One of the absolute joys of producing the 200churches Podcast is that we get to talk to so many different people, who hold one thing in common – they love and appreciate small church ministry just as much as large church ministry. Our purpose is not to indoctrinate other pastors with our statement of belief, so we don’t debate doctrine, church polity, or platform dress (Jonny is definitely a hipster, and me… well, never mind). We talk about being pastors of God’s people, and we strive to provide ministry encouragement to pastors of small churches. Pastor Cynthia Moore has served the same rural church for 20 years. She loves her people, and they love her. I introduced her with Monday's blog post. I attended a Promise Keepers event this year with men from her church. Her husband and almost twenty other guys had committed to attending this event and growing together as men of God. This was a great group of guys! We talked about their church, and the ministry they have been doing there. I was impressed. A few months after we started 200churches, I knew I would have to invite Cynthia on the podcast someday. She is the real deal when it comes to small church ministry. She, and other pastors like her, are the ones who never get the attention, notoriety, or affirmation they really deserve. They are the unsung heroes, serving faithfully year after year. Quietly. Unnoticed down a gravel road. Their churches have dozens, not hundreds. Small buildings with modest furnishings, not mega-churches with cutting edge technology. They have people who are close and committed, with kids who grow up knowing that the body of Christ is like a family. The girl who graduated grew up in Cynthia’s church. Cynthia is the only pastor this college grad has ever known. She loves and respects Pastor Cynthia. She loves the Lord because of her parents’ love for God, and her pastor’s teaching and example. This girl has been dating my oldest son for five years. She is in her second year of medical school and will be a doctor. She will perhaps be the mother of my future grandchildren. Am I thankful a lady named Cynthia has faithfully taught the Word of God, and shared the gospel, in this church for twenty years? You better believe I am! So to all the small church pastors who live down a gravel road, receiving no recognition, acclaim, or reward – this episode is for YOU! Thank you for serving Jesus quietly, and loving his sheep fervently! Thank you Cynthia, for being a good and faithful servant! This week on the podcast, we talked with Dave Jacobs who has dedicated his life to coaching pastors, and especially pastors of 200churches. If you haven't listened yet, quit reading this right now and listen. Seriously. Have you listened yet? Good. How awesome was that?! Dave gets right to the heart of the issue and with so much compassion and understanding, tells us what we already know: being a pastor is tough. It's tough emotionally, spiritually, and physically. Because of the difficult nature of the job, it's important that pastors take care of themselves. Not just for their own sake, but also for the sake of their families, congregations, and communities. We pastors need to be healthy. One of the craziest moments on the podcast came when Dave suggested that pastors schedule themselves around 35 hour work weeks. Say what?! His reasoning makes sense though: we already know that as pastors, we'll have at least 5 hours of unscheduled time come up here and there throughout the week. That's the nature of being "on-call" and, for many pastors, that's the part of the job that we enjoy the most.
Because of that unscheduled time, Dave encourages all the pastors he coaches to schedule themselves 35 hours in a week. Why? Because being a pastor can really take it out of you! We take "work" home with us, send emails on the go, talk to our spouses about the latest goings on at the church, and generally carry the spiritual burden of the church 24/7. If we're not careful, we can start to work 50, 60, or even 70+ hours a week! That's bad for our health and definitely bad for the health of those around us. This is something that we at 200churches have to work on too, and begin to practice what we preach. Our schedules can get away from us and soon we can't even separate "ministry" time from "free" time. But even in our own weakness, we've found some practices that help: 1. Set a routine and refuse to break it! - Maybe your routine is to head to the office at 7 AM and leave no later than 4. Maybe it's insisting that you won't be out of the house more than two nights a week. Maybe it's that you take every Friday off. We're all different and our schedules and routines will look different. The goal isn't to fit yourself into a pre-made schedule box, but rather to refuse to jump out of the box you've created for yourself. 2. Limit the hours you work every week - Maybe this means you turn off your iPhone when you get home at night. Or maybe it means going in later to work if you know you're going to be there late. Dave talked about the 35 hour week and we think you should take that advice to heart. Quit working so many hours. The ministry will be there when you get back. 3. Ask your spouse/kids what they think your schedule should be - Is this a scary thought? If you're worried about what your spouse or kids might tell you, you're probably already working too hard. Dave listed off the priorities of a pastor like this: 1. God 2. Spouse 3. Kids 4. Ministry. What does your list look like? If you're not sure, ask your family, they'll know. While this list can't be lived literally, the priorities of life should be reflected in that order. Once you've developed a healthy schedule, you can actually start to schedule yourself some health. Take a monthly retreat. Seriously, do it. As small church pastors and leaders, we have a responsibility to take care of ourselves and our relationship with Christ. A better work schedule should lead to a better sleep schedule. A better meal schedule. A better exercise schedule. We're not telling you to become health nuts, but we are encouraging you to at least be healthy leaders. So what did you think of the podcast this week? Were you inspired to call Dave and get some coaching for yourself? Lets us know what you think in the comments. We always love to hear from you!
This, is a no-holds barred, very honest, tête-à-tête between three, not two, pastors! We talk about the things that rattle a pastor's personal cage. These are things that we wish we had a handle on, and they all revolve around self-care and soul-care. How do we take care of ourselves? Better, do we?
Dave Jacobs from SmallChurchPastor has spent almost 30 years in ministry and today, from his home in Oregon, works full time coaching pastors and boards, mostly from small churches. Dave works with pastors of all size churches, but he specializes in small churches.
When we found Dave, we quickly invited him to join us on the podcast, because we knew he would share a ton of encouragement with all of you, our 200church pastor friends! So this "post" is very short, because we want you to enjoy this, our longest episode yet. Listen to it in two or three segments, but listen to it - because we know you are going to be both challenged and encouraged! Finally, be sure to check out SmallChurchPastor.com, because Dave has a ton of resources, some free, and some too good to give away! I especially like the resources he uses as he works with church boards to help you as a pastor in your leadership. This website is a treasure trove of help for pastors of small churches - take a look! We are not affiliate marketers for Dave, we're just smart - we know a good thing when we see it! Links that are all about Dave! www.davejacobs.net www.smallchurchpastor.com Dave's Church Board Training Modules My Best Leadership Training Curriculum dave@smallchurchpastor.com Twitter: @thinkmonk Books by Eugene Peterson that Dave references: The Contemplative Pastor - Returning to the Art of Spiritual Direction Under the Unpredictable Plant: An Exploration in Vocational Holiness Working The Angles - The Shape of Pastoral Integrity Five Smooth Stones for Pastoral Work
In this episode Jonny and Jeff are joined by their friend Nathan Stob, the Director of Atlas Ministries in their town. Nathan counsels and helps men in their community with all kinds of life issues, including porn addiction. This is a serious discussion of the spiritual silent killer: porn. If you struggle with this, or if you need to help others who struggle, we know this episode will help and encourage you. Maybe you are literally drowning in porn addiction – this episode is for you!
Jeff and Nathan have been friends for about seven years, serving together in non-profit organizations in the same town. They get together for lunch frequently just to talk life and help each other stay on track. In this episode, along with Jonny, they talk about the very sensitive issue of pornography. This is a serious scourge on our society that we are all potentially affected by in one way or another.
Here are some links to places where you can get help. This sin is no respecter of persons or callings. If you are struggling with this, congratulations, you’re human! We know that this podcast episode will help you, and encourage you as you lead in your 200church! Contacts for the three guys on the podcast:
Links to help you:
Whenever we partner with others, we get help and encouragement to get through our stuff, so, find another pastor, counselor, or close friend whom you trust – and confide in them. Bringing our sin into the light of day drains its power over us! Confess your sins to one another, James says, and you will be healed. At the end of the podcast, Jeff makes a very heartfelt appeal to you, if you are struggling with pornography and have NO ONE to talk to – call Nathan, Jeff, or Jonny. These guys are all at different stages in life, so call the one closest to your stage. They care and will be glad to talk with you, pray with you, and help you to not journey through this alone. Jeff is 50 with adult kids, Nathan is 37 with grade school kids, and Jonny is 27 with preschool kids. Email them, get in touch, and begin the process of coming clean! They love pastors of small churches, so remember, if you’re alone – not any more, you have someone to talk to. Once again, here are their email addresses:
This week we are dealing with an issue that brings us grief and pain. Too many 200church pastors, let alone church leaders and members, are embroiled in this every week, some every day. It is a subject that we approach reluctantly, but out of necessity. You want to wear gloves to type about it and take a brain bath after thinking about it. The issue is pornography addiction, and, porn addiction in the church. Any pastor, male or female, who has spent any amount of time online, has at least accidently crossed paths with online pornography. It might be soft porn, but it’s porn. Too many have viewed site after site, and still others are all-out addicted to it. It is heartbreaking because of the pain, loss, and suffering it causes in too many lives. This week we are going to talk about this topic, and we hope that it is encouraging to you if you 1) struggle in this area yourself. If you do, welcome to humanity! We hope we can help you find hope, or, 2) have a close friend or family members who struggles with porn. There is an entire industry committed to your potential, current, or ongoing addiction! Here are some interesting statistics, and again, they are heartbreaking:
Only you can answer the question: “What part does porn play in your life?” This week on the 200churches Podcast, episode 43, we are going to have a conversation with Nathan Stob, the Director of Atlas Ministries, about pornography and pastors. Nathan is involved in the Sexual Wholeness Task Force, a group of professionals in Sioux County, IA who are committed to working together to reduce the instances of addiction to online pornography in their county. The Sexual Wholeness Task Force recently gathered community leaders in the areas of counseling, education, law enforcement, and church leadership. They shared their vision of making a difference and discussed the challenges of addressing this pervasive cultural problem in our communities. We have asked Nathan to talk with us about the problems of porn, the secrets in our society, the dangers to pastors and their families, and the potential hope of overcoming the addiction. This is a really sad podcast for us, around a troubling subject. But it is absolutely necessary for us to talk about this if we are going to move forward in this area of our spiritual commitment. **The above stats come from this site Happy Friday from Jeff and Jonny at 200churches! We have spent the week talking about the bigness of small church ministry, and we will end the week talking about it. Do you think that the smaller sites of a multi-site megachurch have inferiority complexes because they are smaller? Ever consider if the staff in the larger venues struggle with pride because their site has more people? Ever wonder if the leaders of the smaller worship venues in a church with multiple services ever stew because another venue with a different worship style or service time is attracting more people? Yeah, us neither. We’re too worried about how many people are in our small church, or how many are in the church across town. We may be wondering why our church is not growing as fast as Mark’s or Susan’s or Bill’s. Do we spend the same amount of time concerning ourselves with our walk with God? Or, the spiritual growth of our people? Or, the poor, orphan, or widow in our community? Wow, talk about a guilt trip! Let’s change direction before this plane hits a mountain…
Are you ever glad for the small church you pastor? In the part of our conversation this week with Karl Vaters that did not get recorded, we talked about the following dynamics in larger churches: Karl told us about his friend’s church of 3,000 people that had multiple sites, multiple venues, and multiple services. He said that in that church of 3,000 no group ever met for worship with more than about 350 people. Some of the services had 50 people in them! Listen, in a church of 3,000, some services have 50 people! Now, how do you feel about your church of 50? Pretty good, we hope. What if the ten churches in your community that total 3,000 people pretend you are just one big church in your town and that each of the buildings are just another “site”. Yeah, so there, what if?! Now how do you feel about your church of 100? Do you see how it’s all so relative – size of congregation? Finally, what do the big churches have to do – break themselves down into smaller groups so that they can do ministry effectively. Yes, it’s called, multi-site, multiple venues, multiple services, etc. In fact, so many churches have what we call “small groups” so that they can do life together. Something they can’t do on a Sunday morning in the bigger crowd, whether that’s 40 or 40,000. So you see, having a small church simply means you can do ministry with people and cut out the part about breaking everyone into smaller groups. Get to know the other pastors in your town, all of them, and just make pretend they are all on your staff and pastoring the other sites in your multi-site church! Enjoy your small church ministry. It’s the only kind of ministry Jesus ever did. Your leadership and shepherding matter HUGE in your 200church. Comment below on just one thing you like about pastoring a small church...
Here is our conversation with our friend Jim Powell. This episode is a little longer than most, but we couldn't cut out any more content - Jim gives 200church pastors some great stuff to think about. Links to Jim and his resources are below the video.
This video is a trailer for his new book, Dirt Matters. Watch it before you listen to the podcast, then everything we talk about will make more sense. Again, all the links for Jim are below the video.
We started the week saying it’s all about relationships, friendships, and partnerships in ministry. In fact, we have been singing this song for two weeks now. Yes, we all need relationships to make it in ministry. We need support. We need encouragement. We need friends. But… What about others like us? What about pastors in our area, or pastors who we know, that just might be dying on the vine? What if we turned the tables on ourselves and thought about others who might need the very same things as they pastor their 200church?
As we close out this week, we would like to ask you to think of others, and specifically think of someone by name – a real pastor, who could benefit from your phone call or email. A man or woman in ministry who needs the encouragement you could gift to them today or tomorrow – who are they? What is their name? You could:
It’s not what you do that is so important, it’s that you do something! We’re on the same team, and sometimes we need an “Attaboy!” or “Attagirl!”. Sometimes we need that pat on the back or shot in the arm to carry us further down the field. In more than one place in the New Testament (in fact, in four places) we are commanded to “encourage one another.” So we call you to do just that this weekend! Answer these three questions: Who am I going to encourage? _________________________ How will I encourage them? ___________________________ When will I encourage them? __________________________ Don’t forget to KISS it! Keep It Simple Stupid! Don’t make a building project out of it like us pastors are prone to do. Don't make it so complicated - that's when we never get to it. Just do it. Encourage another pastor this weekend. Now, comment and tell us what you are going to do to encourage another 200church pastor this weekend…
Today is the second and final segment of Jeff’s conversation with Rob Tarnoviski who is the Lead Pastor at Bethel Fellowship - The Church @ Franklin Mills. We think you will find it transparent and refreshing as they openly discuss the following topics:
As pastors, we have to balance two competing agendas: 1) those on the inside, and 2) those on the outside. The challenge is that the agenda for those on the outside of the Body of Christ will never be brought to the table, unless ministry leaders bring it for them. When they do, they are often opposed by those inside the church, seeking the insiders’ agendas. Rob talks about how he has created a culture in his church that thinks about the outsiders. This is a balancing act we have to maneuver all the time as pastors. We must feed the sheep, and we must leave the ninety-nine to find the lost sheep. We have to serve the body of Christ, while at the same time reach out to those who are far from Christ. In the last half of the 20th century, so many churches created climates where Christians were encouraged to separate themselves from unbelievers and segregate themselves into Christian schools, Christian social clubs, and Christian communities. Even mega churches created a one stop shop for all of the needs of a Christian family. They increasingly removed the need for the church to associate with the world. Next week we are going to hear the conversation that Jeff and Jonny have with Jim Powell, pastor of Richwoods Christian Church in Peoria, IL. He is the author of the book, Dirt Matters - The Foundation For a Healthy, Vibrant, And Effective Congregation and the founder of the 95Network. We will talk about how the culture of the church matters! His book compares the culture of a church, to the soil that plants grow in – and he surmises that dirt matters. The composition of soil is foundational to how well things grow. In the same way, the culture of a church is foundational to how a church grows. In today’s and last week’s podcast, Pastor Rob essentially talks about the culture of Bethel Fellowship. It is a solidly outsiders oriented culture. They think intentionally about those who aren't there… YET! Bethel has had staff members who have stayed on for many years, and the stability of the church is to their credit!
How about you and your church?
We wonder what kind of culture your church has? What kind of church culture are you trying to create? If you listed the things that bother you most about your ministry, you would see how the culture of your church is causing those very challenges. As you listen to today’s and next week’s podcasts, consider your church culture, and think about how you might begin to shape it intentionally into a culture and environment that will accomplish the very things which comprise the vision of your church. Finally, if you know of other 200church pastors who could be encouraged by the 200churches Podcast, pass along the website to them: www.200churches.com. If you want to share a topic you would like us to spend a week on in the near future, use the speakpipe pop-out on the homepage and send us a voice message, or email either of us at jeff@200churches.com or jonny@200churches.com. YOU are so important to the people who are your church. These are the ones God has called you to care for, feed, love, and protect. Do it with diligence and love.
Today's podcast is Part 1 of a conversation between Jeff and Rob Tarnoviski. Rob is the Lead Pastor at Bethel Fellowship - The Church @ Franklin Mills, Philadelphia, PA. As you listen to this episode, you will likely be reminded of your own call to ministry, and the successes and missteps along the way to where you are today. The purpose of this conversation is to encourage you in your ministry, and remind you that you are not alone in your doubts and failings in your ministry journey. The key is to persevere, to not give up. You must keep moving forward in faith.
Rob's ministry at Bethel has only seen 17 years. To some of you that is a short time, to others, you can't imagine spending 17 years in your church. But those 17 years were lived one day, one week, one month, and one year at a time. You can do the same. It's always too soon to quit, and it's never quite time to give up. If you believe that the Lord brought you to where you are today, continue. Move past your fear. Move in faith instead. Faith in who God is, and who he made you to be.
You can find Rob's church online at www.fmchurch.net and follow him on Twitter at www.twitter.com/pastorrobfm. We hope Part 1 of this conversation is helpful to you. Part 2 comes next week in Episode 39. Your leadership matters. Stay the course! You can subscribe to The 200churches Podcast and leave us a rating by opening iTunes here. |
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