The term “lifelong learner” has been around for quite a while. It describes a person who never stops learning. I have been a pastor for over 25 years. I have had people in my churches in their 50’s who, for all intents and purposes, had stopped learning. They were no longer curious or interested in anything new. That, was very sad.
I have also had very elderly people, into their 90’s, who still had that magical twinkle of curiosity in their eyes! They would never stop learning until the day they died. John was 93 when he died. He died with a whole list of things in his head that he was still wondering about, still investigating, still curious about. The wonder and beauty of the world was still something that captured his attention, and he marveled at it. Are you, Pastor, still learning and growing? I hope so. I hope you haven’t figured it all out yet. If you have, there is a whole new pile of stuff to take a look at, and another pile, and another after that! This week on the podcast we have Danielle Dworak, from Bethel Seminary. Danielle works with pastors who are going back for their next degree. I (Jeff) received a great four-year Bible College degree. I got a Bachelor’s in Bible and Pastoral Ministry. Then I got my Master’s in four children! When my oldest was approaching graduation from college in May 2010, I realized I needed to go back and get my real M.Div. So, at the age of 47 I went back to school. Danielle is the lady who helps pastors like me navigate the crazy waters of the Bethel “InMinistry Program”. On Wednesday, on episode 89, Danielle talks to Jonny and me about what she has learned in that role, and in turn asks us questions about what it’s like to finish Seminary while still serving fulltime in your ministry position. Not just at Bethel, but all around the country, education is becoming more accessible and more affordable than ever for men and women in ministry. In episode 89, we are going to challenge you to consider going back. One strategy, more than any other, caused me to learn the most in my four years at Bethel. Here’s what it was… In most of our classes we were exposed to authors and professors who did not teach us what to think, but shared with us several disparate views, from people who supported them, and allowed us to decide where we were positioned on the topic. From conservative to liberal – from dispensational theology to liberation theology, we read from a wide range of authors and positions. Reading from people who think opposite of you allows you to refine your own beliefs, and appreciate that others have very valid and understandable positions on theology, ministry, society, and the life of a disciple. Thirty years ago, in Bible College, I was taught what to believe. Thirty years later, I was taught how to think, discern, navigate, and learn. I was then exposed to many viewpoints, and the rationales behind them, and allowed to construct my own theological convictions. When was the last time you read someone who disagreed with your framework or worldview? When was the last time you appreciated the position and understood the viewpoint of someone with whom you vehemently disagreed? I remember reading some liberal theologians and thinking, “Wow, I always thought they were crazy! Now, I understand why they think the way they do.” Sometimes I would still disagree, and sometimes I would change my opinion and agree with them, but always I would come away with a greater appreciation for the body of Christ and theologians who were seeking truth, and the God of truth. This week you should go to Amazon.com and find a book who’s author espouses a different opinion than you hold on a theological or ministry issue. Read it. Understand it. Appreciate it. Then, ask yourself what you learned from it. Do you still hold to your previous position? Does it sway your thinking at all? Why, or why not? We know you’re going to enjoy episode 89. But be warned: this is the LONGEST episode in the history of the 200churches Podcast. So enjoy – there’s lots of good stuff in there! But you might need two or three go-arounds to finish it. Don’t worry though, even though it’s longer, it’s still the same price - FREE! Never stop learning. Never let the twinkle leave your eye! Always be curious! Tonight I’m thinking about the podcast episode that comes out this week on Wednesday. It’s another good one! It will be titled “Lessons From Two Laymen – What Every Pastor Needs To Hear.” On episode #70 we talk with Mark Meyers, a 200church pastor from Warrenton, MO. Mark is joined by two of his guys, Steve and Tory. Mark has done a masterful job of leading his church according to a principle I have long believed in: The ministries of a church should reflect the gifting of the people. Mark’s guys talk about how he approached them as a pastor, looking for what made them tick, and what types of activities would make their eyes light up. It seems that he’s tailored his ministry around the gifting of the people in his church.
What Steve and Tory share is invaluable for a small church pastor to hear. Steve and Tory are part of Mark’s leadership team and integral to their sports outreach ministry. I found myself reviewing in my mind how I interact with the folks in our town and the people in our church. I was challenged by their perspectives. One of my mantras has been that phrase, the ministries of a church should reflect the gifting of the people – is that true in your church? Or do you find yourself trying to recruit people to prop up ministries that should have been discontinued long ago. Henry Cloud would call them “Necessary Endings.” And, he would smile as he said it! I was also thinking about something John Maxwell has long said, which he calls the Law of the Inner Circle: Those closest to you determine the level of your success. Well, I would adjust that a little for this conversation and say, Those in your church determine the ministries of your church. They not only determine the ministries of your church, but they determine the level of success of those ministries! I am also thinking about Rick Warren’s S.H.A.P.E. philosophy. He says that a helpful way for a person to figure out what ministry God has designed them for is to assess their S.H.A.P.E. – Spiritual gifts, Heart, Abilities, Personality, and Experiences. When we assess those five areas of our life, we get a good picture of both how God has designed us intrinsically, and how he has shaped us by our experiences in life. I’ve never considered this before, but I think you could assess the S.H.A.P.E. of an entire church. On a whole, what types of spiritual gifting does the church have? What do the people in your church really get passionate about? What are the skillsets of the people in your church? What kind of a personality does your church possess? Finally, what experiences has your church body gone through, as a group? Let me finish with this analogy Let’s say you bought a five-acre plot of land just covered with trees, thick trees. When I was a kid, we’d call them, “the woods”. We would say we were going to play in “the woods.” So you bought a chunk of land just covered with “woods.” Let’s say you wanted to know what was in those woods. Would you google “What is in the woods?” Would you do a search on environmental sites to try to determine what is generally in the woods? What you ask people in your town what they think is usually in “the woods” around them? No to all of the above, if you really want to know. Here’s what you would do – take a walk in the woods! Look! Figure it out for yourself! So, if you want to decide what kinds of ministries you should have in your church, would you google, “important church ministries”? Maybe you’d do a search for “ministries in a small church”? No, and no. Take a walk! Talk to the people in your church. Get to know them. Why, you could even order Rick’s Purpose Driven S.H.A.P.E. class materials and run people through them if you wanted to. These were just some random thoughts as I consider the wonderful talk Jonny and I had with Mark, Tory, and Steve. You’re going to enjoy episode #70. And you’ll be challenged and encouraged too. I promise. Have a great week leading, feeding, and LOVING your people! Thirty years ago when I was preparing for ministry, personal computers were available, expensive, and rare. It would be ten years or more before most of us would even hear of the Internet, and social media would have referred to a political reporter’s cocktail hour in Washington, D.C. Even with cable television, radio, newspapers and magazines, the world was amazingly dark to us. Compared to the current day, we had little access to information. Today we have virtually unlimited access to information, and, we have vast access to more people around the world than ever before. With the Internet and social media, we can create groups and communities as well as organizations and movements. Some can become instant celebrities, or even instant failures.
A common complaint in our culture revolves around people who are around others, but who have their eyes glued to their phone. Three or four people sitting in a restaurant together, all staring at their iPhones, texting or scrolling feverishly. We are sometimes furthest from those in the closest proximity to us, attempting to get closer to those across town or across the country. As Yoda would say, “Ironic, it is.” Young pastors today run the risk of spending more virtual time with people than face time. Yeah, and I don’t mean FaceTime. We have members of our church all over our town, yet we spend more time trying to connect with them on social media than we do just driving over to their homes or workplaces just to say hi. Don’t hear what I’m not saying. I think we should be involved with social media. For most pastors, I think we should be even more involved with social media, and at a smarter level. Social media is the “telephone” of the new century. The pastors and ministries who ignore social media do so to their own loss. Having said that, we cannot forget to visit with real people in their natural habitats – their homes and workplaces. Nothing will ever replace a hug or a handshake, or looking into someone’s eyes to encourage or console them. Personal interaction will always trump social media. It cannot replace it, but it will always trump it. In addition to social media, the Internet also provides a perceived, but not always real, level of success. Because we may have enough “friends, likes, connections, views, or downloads” we think we are successful. Some young pastors dream of becoming the next ministry superstar, eagerly sought after for the next conference or online webcast or interview. Because of the reach we can achieve online, the danger of not being satisfied with the people in the pews is real. Again, don’t hear what I’m not saying. I think we should use any and all means to extend our ministry and influence for the Kingdom of God and the Gospel of Jesus. I also think that we need to love the ones we’re with, the real, living and breathing people in our pews. (I know, many of us don’t have pews…) We shouldn’t be spending more time building our online presence than we spend with real people – loving and ministering to them. Nothing will replace the personal word or personal touch. So, how are you doing, young pastor? Are you online more than you’re actually with your people? Do your church members get only digital or virtual touches from you, and never the personal touch? While most of us spend a lot of time creating and managing virtual realities than can touch real people, let’s not forget to thoughtfully and carefully love the ones we’re with. What if God isn’t who you think he is, and neither are you? That is the subtitle to the book, The Cure, which our guest from last week’s podcast authored – John Lynch. BUT, this week we will talk with Karl Vaters from NewSmallChurch.com about megachurches, and our attitude toward them. Our point will be that NewSmallChurch.com and 200churches.com, while cheerleading small church pastors and their churches, are not out to bash or trash the Biggee Big Churches! So, let’s take The Cure’s subtitle and adjust it a bit to make it the subtitle to this week’s podcast, episode 65: What if your church isn’t what you think it is, and neither are you?! Did you think that your church, because it’s small, is not quite as important or significant as the larger church? Maybe you thought that your church is not as valuable to the Kingdom as First Megachurch across town.
Have you considered yourself not quite as valuable or vital to the Kingdom of God because you only pastor 50, 150, or 300 people? I mean, you don’t command a staff of 23 or 230, so your ministry is kind of small fry compared to the Big Boys, right? Of course. You’re somebody, but you could easily be replaced. You’re not nobody, but you’re only a notch or to above it. Well, what if your church isn’t what you think it is, and neither are you?! What if your church was significant, vital, valuable, important, and key to what God is doing in your community? What if, without your church, scores or hundreds of people would be without Christ over the past two decades, Christian families would be pagan, and missionaries wouldn’t have been sent to the field? What if your church is the central location of how God is showing love to your neighborhood? What if you were an important and substantial force for good in your community as a Christian pastor and leader? Maybe the children of your church are forming what will be a lifelong love and respect for God and his Word because of how you interact with them and lead their parents and your congregation? What if you knew that future pastors, missionaries, godly business leaders, neighborhood evangelists, teachers, doctors, scientists, or national leaders were growing up in your church right now, and that you were having an enormous influence on the way that they will love and lead in the future? What if comparing your church to the megachurch was like comparing a tire to an engine, or a social worker to a brain surgeon? All four of them are much needed and important, but they all have different responsibilities and functions. They really cannot be compared. If you were a social worker, should you spend most of your time feeling inferior to the brain surgeon? No! You should spend your time helping people find answers and solutions and making their lives better. If you were a tire, should you stare endlessly in envy toward the engine? No! You should keep your grip on the road and maintain the fine looking machine you’re carrying. Are you a pastor? Is your church a real church? Is it a group of Christ-followers joined together for the purpose of worshiping God, growing spiritually, serving others in love, and reaching the lost with the Gospel through message, care, mercy and justice? Then stand tall! On Wednesday, I hope we are able to get you to think about your church differently, and about yourself as a pastor with pride and pleasure at what you can do in the Kingdom of God. And we won’t bash the megachurches. We love them! And we love the medium, large, and biggie big churches too! Happy Monday pastors. We get to do this.
What are the three dangers you ask? Here they are, so that you can be thinking about them as you listen to the podcast:
1. Believing that if the church is small it doesn’t make a big difference. 2. Chasing feeling good over doing right. 3. Trading dreams for duty. In this episode, we explore these three in detail with the Executive Pastor of 12stone church in Lawrenceville, GA, Dan "The Enforcer" Reiland.
This is a great conversation where Dan joins us for the entire episode. There is also a cameo appearance by a good friend of Jonny's. In this episode we get to know Dan just a little more, and we all explore together these three dangers that all churches face, but especially small churches.
I (Jeff) just returned a few hours ago from Bethel Seminary in St. Paul, MN. I spent four days in the last class I will have for a Master's degree. Five nights of moderate sleep deprivation leaves this post uncharacteristically short - so hurry on over and listen to the podcast. We'll catch up again on Friday! You can find more of Dan Reiland at www.danreiland.com! Click on his picture above to check out his book. Amplified Leadership, on Amazon. I attended a large church yesterday. It wasn’t a mega church, but it was large, probably around 2,000 people. Is that a mega church?? It might have been twenty years ago, but not today. Anyway, I attended a large church yesterday! There was a large parking lot, greeters at the door, and the next door, and the next door. There was a very spacious “welcome mall” with great signage and helpful volunteers stationed about here and there.
There was helpful literature with great graphics and cool flat panel monitors broadcasting all manner of helpful pictures, video, and promotions. In the auditorium there were well padded seats, a kickin’ sound system, colored stage lights, fog machines, a very cool worship team with awesome music, an amped up well-worded introduction to the morning theme, a series intro video, casually dressed staff and a casually dressed pastor presenting a very dynamic, but down to earth, message. Oh yeah, and he had a very cool bar stool to sit on, with a padded round seat that could really spin! I knew the message would be soft pedaled and light on Scripture. I knew it would be interesting, but not too convicting, funny, but with enough content to make a person think, short, but long enough to validate a pastoral paycheck. I knew it would be church-lite, Bible-lite, and God-lite. Okay, not really. I didn’t really know these things about the message. But, here’s what it was really like… It was unbelievably excellent and effective! The message was from 1 Corinthians 6 and contained about the most straightforward warning against sexual sin one could present. It was Andy Stanleyesque, in the very best sense. The pastor used story, and self-deprecating humor when necessary, to draw the congregation in. He asked the questions out loud that they were thinking silently. He piqued their interest for an answer to the question “Why?!” Why in the world would God demand that people in the 21st century live by an antiquated and prudish notion that sex should be reserved only for marriage?! He politely asked for 30 minutes of their attention and then assured them at the end that if they would commit to living by God’s design for sexuality, they would be so glad they did! The service concluded with a very powerfully played “Forever Reign” which includes the lyrics: Oh, I'm running to Your arms, I'm running to Your arms. The riches of Your love Will always be enough Nothing compares to Your embrace Light of the world forever reign It was one of the most powerful conclusions to a service that I have ever experienced! At this large church, we were given a very powerful, focused, culturally needed biblical message, wrapped in a winsome and gripping delivery, wrapped in a very crowd-appropriate musically dynamic service. It was an amazing experience. I walked out hating my small church and my life as a small church pastor. Wait a minute! No, I didn’t!! I walked out thankful to God for a church like this that will reach a lot of people and connect them to their loving God. I was thankful for the pastor and staff that God has equipped to do their Kingdom work. And, my friends, I walked out so thankful for my 200church! In my church, it’s different. Not better or worse, just different! I am so thankful for the people at my church, and the opportunity we have in our community to reach people, join them to God through the Gospel of Jesus, equip them to serve God and others, and connect them in meaningful and healing relationships with each other. I was challenged and encouraged yesterday morning in a number of ministry areas, areas where I can up my game, and attempt just a little more for the Kingdom in my own 200church. Dan Reiland wrote a Pastor’s Coach article a while ago that talked about the three dangers that large churches face:
This Wednesday on the 200churches Podcast, episode 63, Dan joins us for the entire episode to talk about those three dangers. It’s a great, personal, and free-wheeling episode that is sure to encourage and challenge you, and of course, make you laugh! You should attend a really large church sometime when you are able. It was fun. It really was. And I lived to tell about it!
EPISODE OUTLINE
In Episode 54 we talk about being wired in certain ways for ministry. We unpack three areas of “wiring”:
We talk about the difficulty we had in creating this particular episode. We had a very busy week, filled with unexpected events, and did not have much time to invest in preparation. ADDITIONAL COMMENTS We do not say this on the podcast, so we will say it now – we were able to navigate the past week because we have been preparing well and praying much. We had already committed our weekend plan to God, and had spent a lot of time preparing well for the weekend of ministry. Most of it did not go according to our plans, but we knew that God was answering our prayers for the weekend in his own way, so it was easy to roll with his punches! We think that all of life should be preparation for ministry, and that if we are walking close to the LORD, he will accomplish his will in us and through us, even if it doesn’t look like our plans. So this episode is for YOU! We hope that you are encouraged and challenged by two guys who are doing what you’re doing – ministry in a 200church. We aren’t perfect, but we depend on the God of the universe – so we’re covered, and so are you! IMPORTANT NOTE: As you listen to this episode, it might sound like we are questioning your call to your church, that we are saying to leave your church if you are not a fit, if you're not wired for it. No, No, No. We want to send the message that long term pastorates are the best for churches. BUT... If you find that in all three areas that we talk about, you are dramatically wired differently, and not for your current context - then you should seriously question whether or not you might better serve the Kingdom in a different ministry location. That transition might take a month or two years, God can handle it. If you are just wired differently in only one of the areas, and it's just a moderate difference, then you just need to consider how you might mitigate the difficulties in that area. Perhaps you need to get advice or counsel on how to handle that area in your context/culture. This is likely simply an opportunity for growth. If you are dying on the vine - get help, get counsel, get advice, and if you need to - get out! So, that is your PASTORAL WARNING as you prepare to listen to this episode. We think after all the bluster... you'll like it! :) We also mentioned resources, websites, and people. So… here are links to resources we mentioned in Episode 54: Dave Jackson’s School of Podcasting site/podcast John Lee Dumas – Entrepreneur on Fire site/podcast Dan Reiland – Regular Guest on 200churches Podcast Karl Vaters – Regular Guest on 200churches Podcast Dave Jacobs – Pastor Coach & Regular 200churches Guest Expository Preaching – Haddon Robinson Communicating For A Change – Andy Stanley This week on the podcast, episode 52, I (Jeff) said: “Most people are not willing to experience the number of failures necessary to achieve success.” That is true. No real success comes without failure. The bigger the success, the more failures will be necessary to achieve it. It is said that Thomas Edison was asked, when trying to invent the light bulb, if he thought himself a failure because he had not achieved it yet. Edison simply replied negatively, and said that he now knew over 9,000 different substances that would not work as a filament. After trying more than 10,000 substances, he finally lit upon (no pun intended) the right one, and the rest is history. Are YOU willing to experience the number of failures necessary for YOU to achieve success? Don’t give up. And, if you must, don’t give up too quickly! In Edison’s case, many failures made light work!
On this week’s podcast we talked about failure, and how we are learning to embrace it as a necessary step toward success. Today I want to encourage you, as a small church pastor, to not give up too quickly. In other words, do not concede failure until absolutely necessary! Eight years ago I conceded failure on a ministry team much too quickly. I was leading a “Vision Team” to determine what the vision of our church would be for the coming years. We had spent several months and finally came up with a vision statement, membership class material to teach it, and posters, icons, and artwork to communicate it. Our Vision Team of eight people then met with both of our church boards plus a few extra leaders, about twenty-five people in all, to share what we had accomplished. Almost out of the gate one of the people began to question even the need for what we had done. Then one more voiced his opposition to the artwork and logos, saying he thought the primary colors too juvenile. I unwisely allowed these two people to tank the presentation. Inwardly I conceded failure almost immediately. Seeing no way to bridge the gap between these two vocal people, the silence of the others, and the disappointment of the Vision Team, I began to fall back into a defensive position, then into a pattern of retreat. Just a few questions of concern and statements of opposition brought all our work to a halt. I shelved the material for a year, and then quietly began to use the membership material and talk about the vision statement. But it took another six years before we realized that the vision statement we had crafted had actually become reality in our church. Not because we promoted and sold it, but because we all actually just believed it and lived it – it became the reality in our church. But, the Vision Team lost steam in less than a year, and stopped meeting altogether. What more could we have done together, achieved together, if I had not conceded so quickly and called it a failure? We will never know. I failed by conceding failure when I likely did not need to do so. You might be wondering - what was that vision statement we crafted? It was this: AUTHENTIC RELATIONSHIPS WITH GOD & OTHERS 24/7. That is the reality of our church today. We are living those authentic relationships, first with God, and then with each other, and not just on Sunday, but seven days a week. We live and we learn, right? Or, as John Maxwell wrote, “sometimes you win, sometimes you lo… learn!” Well I learned. And I am better for it. Here are six things I learned from that experience: 1. Commit your work to the LORD, and ask him for help in your ministry plans. 2. Be prepared to receive opposition to anything significant that you propose. 3. Expect to have to answer a lot of questions, so anticipate those questions. 4. Write down those questions and the answers you will give. 5. Believe in yourself and your ideas. 6. Believe in your team and the results of your hard work and planning. What are you working on right now? What will you propose to your leadership team or board in the coming weeks or months? If it’s worth doing, it’s worth turning over every stone and not conceding failure until it is absolutely clear that you must. And then when you do fail, learn from it, claim victory, and say “I am one failure closer to success!” |
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