Today, on episode 105, our guest is Sam Prellwitz, Discipleship Pastor at Ripon Community Church in Ripon, Wisconsin. Jonny and Sam met at Bethel Seminary and are good friends who support each other in ministry.
Sam is a young pastor who has successfully served at his church through a staff transition from youth pastor to discipleship pastor. Sam shares his story, how he and his senior pastor led the change in their staff, as well as effectively leading other programmatic changes in their church as well. Sam talks about the importance of communicating with one "staff voice", the benefits of testing the waters before going public, cheerleading change, and much more. We know you will enjoy this episode and walk away with a good lesson or two to put into practice almost immediately. If you have not subscribed to the blog yet, do so above, and get our free resource, Our 7 Favorite Ministry Resources as a PDF download, along with 7 short video introductions to the resources. In the comments below this fantastic picture of Sam and his son, share one "can't do without" practice or principle that has helped you successfully lead a change in your 200church... When I was 17 years old, I got both my driver’s license and a car. My mother bought a new car, and gave me her old one. I was the proud recipient of a 1973, mint green, Chevy Impala 9-Passenger Station Wagon. It was a kid-cruiser, a grocery-getter. And it also took a four-lane highway to do a U-turn… unless that turn was on solid ice. My next car was a German Opel. It was small. I could get into, and out of, the smallest of parking spaces, and I could do a U-turn on a sidewalk. Well, almost. I found out that when it comes to cars, the smaller the car, the easier and quicker the turns. For the record, I’ve never owned, driven, or even seen – a Lamborghini! What’s true for cars is also true for churches. The smaller the church, the easier and quicker the turns. If you pastor a small church, you are able to change things quickly, often on the fly. That is a perk every small church pastor should enjoy, and utilize.
It happened to me, and for me, this morning. Jonny and I spent a fair amount of energy preparing a tag team message for this weekend. We invested prayer, discussion, debate, a short shouting match, and much study into this message. We achieved some serious spiritual and emotional focus. We practiced it on Saturday night, and went home prepared, and excited, having asked God to do his work on Sunday morning, the work we could not do. WHAT HAPPENED... On Sunday morning I taught a Membership Class with 15 people from 8:30 – 10:00am. Our service starts at 10:30. At 9:55am, as I was landing the “Membership Class plane”, Jonny walked in and whispered in my ear, “we’re headed to Sioux Falls.” That meant he was leaving right then, at the last minute, to tend to an emergency situation. He quickly turned and walked out, waiting for no reply from me. He didn’t need one. He would not be with me to give the message. Could I do it myself? I sure could. No problem. But we had a special guest with us this weekend. He had spoken to some adult classes in the auditorium during the 9:00 Sunday School hour. He was phenomenal. “God, are you giving me an opportunity here?” I wondered if God was allowing this guest and me to, last minute, tag team the morning service together? At 10:20 I met with this man, Eric, in my office – ten minutes, mind you, before the service would start. He agreed with me that the Holy Spirit was leading us to do the service together. He was so ready in his heart to share with our people in this "moment". Our prepared message would wait another week. Eric and I were on! After talking with the morning service coordinator at 10:25, Eric and I spent five minutes in prayer, asking God to use this service to minister to the people who were there. There were just over 200 people in the service this weekend – hence, our “200church.” J THE RESULT... Eric shared passionately about his commitment to orphan care in Nigeria, his native country. He talked about what God was doing through his orphanage there, the Cornerstone of Hope. I played a somewhat cameo role, but was able to tie in his passion with the theme of our current series. It was a fantastic service. Truthfully, I left a lot of details about this weekend out of this blog post. It was really an amazing weekend, in both good, and difficult ways. But throughout Sunday morning I was so aware of God directing us, and the size of our church helping us pull off some necessary and wonderful last minute changes. In a 1973 Family Wagon Church, I would never have been able to pull off changing the service in literally five minutes, but in my Lamborghini Church it was not only possible, but fun! In our 200churches, we can do this. It is a pleasure and a privilege. I enjoyed it and am thankful for it. We pulled it off, and people were blessed. HOW ABOUT YOU? Pastor, are you thankful, or resentful, for your small church? You can focus on the positives, or the negatives. Choose to focus on the positives – the benefits, the opportunities, and the blessings of small church ministry. When you do that, you will BLESS your people! Your Lamborghini church is making a difference in the Kingdom of God! There’s a boy in my church, I’ll call him Bobby, who was born in the fall of 2003. That would make him just over ten years old. Bobby is a great young man, articulate, smart, and very happy to follow Jesus. I came to this church in January of 2004. Bobby was just a couple months old. I first saw him in his car seat, all bundled up against the subzero weather we had that January. I am the only pastor Bobby has ever had.
I love kids and always try to develop a personal relationship with the kids at our church. I want them to know some things:
Bobby is the kid who comes to my mind whenever I consider my commitment to my pastoral ministry here. Bobby has only known one pastor – his whole life. If I just stay eight more years Bobby can graduate having experienced one pastor and one church, for his entire childhood and teen years! Bobby will understand that the church, the body of Christ, is real, true, important, vital, and genuine. If I can stay for at least eight more years, and Bobby’s parents continue at our church, Bobby will get to experience something precious few experience – church stability. A church literally living out the love and mission of the body of Christ is so important for a kid to actually believe. It’s important because a kid’s understanding, what is weaved into the fabric of his soul, is what the adults in his life live. They won’t learn from what we tell them – they’ll learn what we live. Pastor, it’s important, that ministry you’re serving in today. And it’s not just important to the Bobby’s of your church – it’s important to all of the people in your church. The average church member, kid or adult, has to switch out pastors 2-5 times if they stay in a church for more than ten years. Pastoral turnover is bad for churches. A recent study found that while long term pastorates do not guarantee a church will grow, short term pastorates (less than four years) absolutely do guarantee that a church will NOT grow. We are not just talking about numbers growth here, but I believe this also relates to the personal spiritual growth of the people as well. Bobby will not grow as much spiritually if he has three or four different pastors before he is eighteen years old. His church certainly won’t grow. Pastor, what did you commit to when God called you into ministry? Personal happiness? A nice part of the country? Having the mall just five minutes away? A warm climate? Or did you commit to people, and to the Gospel? Did you enter pastoral ministry because God looked at you and said – “here is someone who will shepherd my sheep. Here is someone who will look at the crowds and will, like me, be moved with compassion for them. Here is someone who will feed, and not abandon, the flock.”? What’s grinding on you Pastor? What’s making you want to leave? What are you committed to – the idea of ministry, the place where you minister, or the people to whom you minister? Does God really want you to leave them? Only you can answer that question. Make sure you have the right answer.
We are one week away from Christmas, so... Merry Christmas to all!! In today's podcast we listen to a short, three minute, leftover clip from our conversation with Dave Jackson, from SchoolofPodcasting.com. Jonny tells Dave how 200churches started almost one year ago. We began in January, and in December we are going strong - and that is a rockin' feelin!! In this podcast, and in light of starting a new year, we talk about things we should start, and things we should stop...
We talk about two things in this podcast that we want to link to:
A blog post from January that talks about the Lone Ranger... well, after looking, it actually does not mention the Lone Ranger, but it does talk about getting others involved through delegation! A YouTube video with Bob Newhart called: Stop It!! Here is an outline of today's episode, but as usual, there is so much more in the actual audio! What to START, and what to STOP! 1. What do you need to STOP in the New Year? so that you can ask the second question... 2. What do you need to START in the New Year? Let's think about the FIRST question, What do you need to STOP in 2014? How will you stop it? (You need to define "it")
UPCOMING PODCAST EPISODES: Christmas Day - Part 5 of our conversation with Dan Reiland on the message of his book Amplified Leadership. Dan will be joining us every last Wednesday of the month throughout 2014. Dan brings very practical leadership teaching for pastors of small churches. Dan is the "Pastor's Coach" and writes a newsletter by that name for Injoy and John Maxwell. Read a recent Pastor's Coach article called "Big Ministry In Small Churches" Here is how Injoy.com describes the Pastor's Coach Newsletter: Pastor's Coach is designed to refresh, encourage, and equip pastors as they rise to the challenges in the church. Written by executive pastor and leadership development specialist Dan Reiland, Pastor's Coach addresses the thorny issues facing ministry leaders, and offers valuable advice to help pastor's lead effectively. Pastor's Coach puts pastoring in perspective, and offers a much needed reminder as to why ministering in the church is such an admirable calling. At INJOY, we have a deep respect for pastors and an appreciation for the care they provide. Pastor's Coach is one small way we can say thank you! You can sign up to receive Dan's Pastor's Coach digital articles for free here! New Year's Day - On the first Wednesday of every month we will be joined by Pastor Karl Vaters from NewSmallChurch.com, and Cornerstone Christian Fellowship in Fountain Valley, CA. On January 1, 2014 the topic of the podcast will be on chapter one of his book, The Grasshopper Myth - Big Churches, Small Churches, and the Small Thinking that Divides us. We will talk about the importance of how we view ourselves as pastors of small churches. Hey, are we really okay with that??
This, is a no-holds barred, very honest, tête-à-tête between three, not two, pastors! We talk about the things that rattle a pastor's personal cage. These are things that we wish we had a handle on, and they all revolve around self-care and soul-care. How do we take care of ourselves? Better, do we?
Dave Jacobs from SmallChurchPastor has spent almost 30 years in ministry and today, from his home in Oregon, works full time coaching pastors and boards, mostly from small churches. Dave works with pastors of all size churches, but he specializes in small churches.
When we found Dave, we quickly invited him to join us on the podcast, because we knew he would share a ton of encouragement with all of you, our 200church pastor friends! So this "post" is very short, because we want you to enjoy this, our longest episode yet. Listen to it in two or three segments, but listen to it - because we know you are going to be both challenged and encouraged! Finally, be sure to check out SmallChurchPastor.com, because Dave has a ton of resources, some free, and some too good to give away! I especially like the resources he uses as he works with church boards to help you as a pastor in your leadership. This website is a treasure trove of help for pastors of small churches - take a look! We are not affiliate marketers for Dave, we're just smart - we know a good thing when we see it! Links that are all about Dave! www.davejacobs.net www.smallchurchpastor.com Dave's Church Board Training Modules My Best Leadership Training Curriculum dave@smallchurchpastor.com Twitter: @thinkmonk Books by Eugene Peterson that Dave references: The Contemplative Pastor - Returning to the Art of Spiritual Direction Under the Unpredictable Plant: An Exploration in Vocational Holiness Working The Angles - The Shape of Pastoral Integrity Five Smooth Stones for Pastoral Work There it is! The question we shouldn't ask at 200churches, right? After all, we celebrate the small church on this site don’t we? Well, yes and no. We celebrate a small church when a small church has reached its Kingdom potential. But if there is something that is keeping your church from reaching and growing disciples, then we would love to help you discover what that is, so you can continue on your way to whatever is your church’s Kingdom potential! On this week’s podcast we are jumping off an article by Timothy Keller – Leadership and Church Size Dynamics: How Strategy Changes with Growth. We are talking specifically about the content of pages 7-9 which deal with the character of a 200church, and what it takes to cross the 200 barrier to the next size category.
Jeff and Jonny get into a little conflict on this subject regarding leadership gifting versus leadership capacity. Jeff contends that some pastors simply do not have the leadership capacity latent within them to grow a church past 200 members. Jonny rather sees gifting as the issue, and views some pastors gifting more as shepherds than leaders, and resists the concept of capacity limitations. You will have to decide for yourself when you listen! Today we would offer two suggestions: 1. You should read Timothy Keller’s article. It is a fantastic and revealing read, that every pastor should take in and consider in light of their leadership. 2. Ponder the concept of a “single cell mentality” in a church, maybe yours? This concept was communicated by Jim Powell from the 95Network. in one of his coaching sessions titled “Breaking the 200 Barrier.” It’s very insightful. Maybe Jim will be offering more free seminars in the future. Basically the single cell mentality in a church is where the people believe they all need to meet together, at the same time, and in the same room, so that they can all see each other and get to know each other. They mostly view multiple anything as divisive and harmful to the unity of the church. They also thing that if the church doors are open, they need to be there, so they need to participate in most everything. If they are forced to choose between two equally good ministries occurring on the same night, they are frustrated and wonder why the church is double-booking events. If they have to say “no” to something, they feel guilty and can get angry for being put in such a position. This single cell mentality is one of the paradigm shifts a church needs to make (says Keller), in order to move past the 200 barrier. So, read the article and grade yourself as to your acceptance/rejection as a church of the “single cell mentality.” Then, listen to the podcast on Wednesday, and referee the fight between Jeff and Jonny. They both think they are right! Your leadership in your 200church is a blessing to your people and makes a huge difference in the Kingdom of God! No blah blah blah content from us today, just a personal video message wrapping up our Creative Communication theme for the week - then a peak into a very exciting podcast for next week, just below the video... Next week Dan Reiland joins us as we pepper him with questions about his book, Amplified Leadership. We've asked Dan onto the 200churches Podcast because we believe his book speaks very practically to pastors of 200churches.
Dan is not on a book tour, so this will not be a promotional event. Instead, we are going to unpack the content of his book with him, applying it all along to your church and our church - 200churches! Having said that, we would not have him join us if we didn't believe in him as a leader, and appreciate his track record of over 30 years of ministry leadership. So, we would encourage you to get his book, in the real universe, where you hold it in your hand, or on a Kindle - but you have to READ IT. Trust us, it's really practical and will be very helpful to you. Here is Dan's bio - and have a great weekend! Dan Reiland is Executive Pastor at 12Stone® Church in Lawrenceville, Georgia. He previously partnered with John Maxwell for 20 years, first as Executive Pastor at Skyline Wesleyan Church in San Diego, then as Vice President of Leadership and Church Development at INJOY. Dan is best known as a leader with a pastor’s heart and a coach’s instincts. He truly loves the local church, and is described as one of the nation’s most innovative church thinkers. His passion is developing and empowering leaders who want to grow, are willing to take risks, and enjoy the journey. Dan is married to Patti, and they have two kids, Mackenzie and John-Peter who are both college students at Indiana Wesleyan University. Dan is a lover and collector of fine guitars and in a previous life is pretty sure he was a lead guitarist in a rock band. Last week I attended the Willow Creek Association Global Leadership Summit. Sounds impressive, right? Well, I almost didn't attend. Full disclosure – I had forgotten how helpful those things can be. Here’s what happened to me on Thursday morning of the first day of the Summit… I woke up and remembered that my wife needed the car on Thursday afternoon for an appointment in Sioux City. We live 45 minutes away. So, instead of going to the Summit, and then driving back at lunch time to pick up my wife (an hour and a half round trip!), I decided I just wouldn't go on Thursday, but maybe go on Friday.
Then I got the tweet. The tweet with a Bill Hybels quote – sent out in real time. He said this: “everybody wins when the leader gets better.” In that instant, my decision changed. I knew I needed to set aside my plans for the morning and go get better as a leader. I asked my wife how quickly she could be ready to go, we hopped in the car, and I arrived during the lunch break. The afternoon speakers were extremely challenging and encouraging to me! So, “everybody wins when the leader gets better.” If you’re a pastor, you’re a leader. How are YOU doing Mr. or Mrs. Leader? Are you better or getting better? Before the afternoon sessions started, I jotted down four areas I need to get better in as a leader: Differentiation – this means that I can take a well-defined stance on an issue, position, or decision – even when followers of my leadership disagree, and still stay connected in meaningful relationships with them. I do not have to be controlled by their anxiety over change or direction, but can actually be a non-anxious presence that diffuses the anxiety of others. If I am well differentiated, I am not controlled by another’s judgment or opinion of me, but can differentiate myself from them, while still remaining relationally connected to them. I am not drawn in to their drama, but help to create stability and progress. I can always be growing in this area. If I do not lead myself first, I abdicate the control of me to others, and thus lose my leadership influence and effectiveness. Spiritual Health – I think that most of us can improve in our spiritual health. Do we ever really arrive spiritually? Probably not. I would like to at least always be in a state of arriving. The alternative is to have the car parked in the garage and not even be on my way yet! I want to love Jesus with all my heart. I want that authentic and genuine friendship with him. I want to grow in my obedience to him as well. I want to be getting better spiritually, and be influencing everyone around me in the same direction. Prioritization – I want to become a better prioritizer of my time, resources, and relationships. I think of the four quadrants that Stephen Covey talks about in his book, First Things First. I need to get better in Q2 – the area where things are not urgent, but they are important. The important things in life that are not urgent, often get overlooked. Things like relationships, exercise, sleep, financial investing for the future, planning ahead on projects, reading and learning, etc. In this area, I want to get better. Self-Awareness – Why do I do what I do? What makes me tick? Why do I have the problems and challenges that I have? Why am I good at the things that come easy to me? What is the very next thing for me to do in order to get better? I want to be better at understanding me. Only when we understand the why, can we change the what. There are so many more ways I want to be better as a leader, so that everyone around me will be better. Those are just a few. How are YOU doing Pastor? What is the very next thing you need to do in order to be better, in any or every area of your life? Hybel’s quote, tweeted out, shook me up! It caused me to move, to act, and get better as a leader. As we lead and serve, and love and shepherd in our 200church ministry, we get to make everyone around us better. You and I can grow as pastors and leaders. We need to, because our church, no matter the size, matters HUGE in the Kingdom of God! Do you dare to share the one area you need to get better in? Let us know… The third post this week is coming on Saturday, not the usual Friday. See that?! You did not even notice. But, we hope you notice the great encouragement/instruction in this post! This week we've talked about isolation. Now we want to share with you three things you can do to put a lot of distance between yourself and isolation in ministry. Here we go… Understand that you are in a deep rut. If you are isolated, it is because over time, you have decided to sequester yourself from others. Area by area, piece by piece, you have cordoned your life off from significant people who would otherwise give input to you on your decisions, actions, behaviors, etc.
This has happened over time, and probably almost imperceptibly to you. All of a sudden, you wake up one day, and read something, or listen to something, which causes you to realize that you are quite isolated. You are not connected in meaningful ways with others. You are, in effect, alone – alone with your worries, fears, cares, dreams, and needs. You are also alone with your secrets. You need to share your secrets with someone. Rick Warren has made the following phrase well known: “You are only as sick as your secrets.” You absolutely will never get out of your isolation if you do not share your secrets with someone. You need to find someone you can trust, or, who is legally obligated to keep your secrets. :) Find a counselor, therapist, or another pastor who will keep confidences. It is amazing how the headlock those secrets have on you is released when you share them. Yeah, I know, it's hard. Who can you find? There isn't anyone you can trust. You can't afford a counselor. I know, if it was easy, you would have already done it. How badly do you want to grow, to get better, to get away from isolation? Again, we can’t stress this enough – you HAVE TO share your secrets with another person! When you do, their power over you, and the isolation they force you into – is gone. Once you realize you are in a rut, in a prison of isolation, this is the first thing you must do, find someone with whom you can share your secrets. Change your habits, one at a time, by replacing them, one at a time. You have habits of isolation that you have formed over time. Habits that keep you at a distance from others, either physically, relationally, or emotionally. Take some time to identify those habits, and one by one, change them. You can’t change them by just getting rid of them; you must change them by replacing them with new habits. For example, you have a habit of not connecting with people by phone – so make a new habit of calling one person a week, just to talk personally with them. Not for ministry purposes, or to help them, but just to talk about how they are doing, and how you are doing. Make the call. Or, you may have developed the habit of not sharing certain information with your husband or wife. Maybe you have secrets about how you feel about what they just said, how you are handling the finances, or what you like or dislike around the house. Make a new habit of talking to your spouse! When those times come, when you would normally say nothing, and even hide something from them, begin to open up, talk with them – and stop keeping secrets. I think that’s enough for today. If you can realize and act on these three things, you will get a long way down the road from your isolation; a road that leads to relational health and wholeness. Next week, we are talking about our strengths and weaknesses, and how they are BOTH important in shaping our ministry. We have a great podcast for you next Wednesday on this subject that we think will really inspire and encourage you.
In episode 25 Jeff and Jonny are joined by Greg Atkinson, from Carthage, MO.
Greg is a writer, speaker, consultant and campus pastor at Forest Park, a multi-site church based in Joplin, Missouri. Greg has started businesses including the worship resource website WorshipHouse Media, a social media marketing company, and his own consulting firm. As a consultant, Greg has worked with some of the largest and fastest-growing churches across the United States. Greg’s latest writing project is his eBook Church Leadership 101, which has been downloaded by more than 20,000 church leaders around the world.
Greg is a Campus Pastor, so the weekend preaching comes via Forest Park in Joplin and Lead Pastor John Swadley. This gives Greg a unique advantage to pour himself into people, relationships, and leadership at Forest Park Carthage.
When Greg arrived at his church, he faced immediate challenges. He was the third pastor in 3 1/2 years at this multi-site location, and had to quickly earn trust and credibility. Greg shares the specific things he gave his attention to in order to create a turn around at his church. You can find Greg at www.gregatkinson.com, where you can also download his book for free, Church Leadership 101. |
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